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User talk:BlazingKusanagi
Welcome Hi, welcome to YuYu Hakusho Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Demon Species page. Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Hiei Jaganshi (Talk) 19:33, March 25, 2011 So what's your opinion on the YYH Picture Drama? My reaction? Disappointment of the Decade. It wasn't funny at all and despite claims that it would continue the story, it was just a random spinoff of the main 4 asking girls out or something. It was kinda nice hearing the voices though, but the cons far outweighed the pros. I tend to agree with you that it was a total disappointment. The characterization was ok, especially Yusuke, and I thought the artwork was very impressive, but the actually substance of the video is uninteresting and the dialogue is laughably drab. That said, the voices themselves are entertaining I suppose, but the plot...Kuwabara giving dating advice, gimme a break. score 4/10 Hiei_Jaganshi (talk) 18:18, March 26, 2011 (UTC) 4 out of 10?! You are far too kind... Shout Out Hey, from what I've witnessed, your contributions are really nice additions to the site and very informative, keep up the good work man! Hiei_Jaganshi (talk) 22:46, April 14, 2011 (UTC) BTW, I'll try to get the manga scans to add pics for the new pages you added. Thanks, I really appreciate your support. I'm glad I chose to join wikia, when you recommended it to me. It would be much appreciated if you could add some more information on Rainbow Cyclone Redux to go with that great pic you added. If not, it can't be helped. Thx -Jacen Kay, it looks much better now. your continued commitment is much appreciated. Good thinking to condense genkai's Power/techniques section designating spirit wave as her fighting style. Nice! Hiei_Jaganshi (talk) 20:27, April 29, 2011 (UTC) I don't think we should use energy levels, as not many are known and they change so frequently throughout the series. ~HJ~ we can do whatever you want really, I'm game for getting it done, obviously we'll keep it as canon as possible. and we should probably communicate via wikicommunitycentral chat, it's a new feature we'll eventually have on this wiki, and it'll be much more effective for general and group chat. So it's agreed we'll include a disclaimer. hey What would you rank Kaname Hagiri? @^@'' 02:58, May 2, 2011 (UTC)'' He's definitely one of the stronger members of the Sensui Seven. I'd say between D+ to C. C, eh? Hiei and I seem to think he's at C+. Mind telling me why you think he's there? While he's powerful, I think its his effective use of his abilities, rather than the ability itself which makes him so dangerous. I doubt he's as effective as he says. He's never hit anything, without the territory, and he can obfuscate. Why do you think he's so weak? So, seeing how he's not as effective as he says, you think he should be even lower? I call that circumstancial however, considering most of his misses were random, and Kuwabara interfered with one, however, he'd never missed in his territory. Also, his abilities are deadly, and should be A/S class. According to that list C+ was 40 percent Toguro. I don't think Sniper is to that level. What I meant by deadly was, to kill someone you don't need a giant dark flame dragon or a man eating plant, no matter how tiny a bullet is, a bullet is still a bullet. Seeing how quickly he was felled by Hiei makes it difficult for me to place him anywhere higher than a C. I think he just specializes in fighting slower opponents and is helpless against those who have strong enough defense to block the attacks (like Bui) or those fast enough to dodge (Hiei or Jin). Compared to other psychics, his ability is very simple, just telekinetically moving objects, but he uses it so effectively makes him a dangerous opponent. I think so. He nearly killed a B+ Urameshi, who regardless of whether you say was motivated or not, was still trying to beat Hagiri up. Hiei in the manga did a cheap shot, while him being defeated in the anime was nothing but PIS, as he could've shot Hiei point-blank, in the head. Yusuke was not slow, and his territory makes it so that speed doesn't matter. What's more important seems to be his distance from the opponent. And his ability is much more potent than how he uses it. What I mean is that telekinesis has unlimited potential: he could shoot his opponents, and could behead them easily. He is the cool kind of guy, so I'm guessing he shows off? Because as he could move that tanker, he'd obviously be able to do the aforementioned. And that's what counts- not just what has been explicitly shown...as long as his feats aren't too far-fetched. And sorry. If I don't argue you to death, I'll leave it a C+/B- w/ Shi Mon Jou Ji Han. I'm trying to come to an agreement. See if you can convince me, so I can convince Jangashi. Or the other way around, if you can't. BTW blazing, we are referencing the Character Tier pg. made by ctype; I believe the C+ 40% toguro was part of the pojo table, which we're just using as a reference, not a representation of a consensus like on the main tier page. I still believe Hagiri is at C+* energy level, for the reasons stated above, obfuscation, he would have no trouble dealing with the Saint beasts or Yukina arc Yusuke/Kuwabara imo which are a good representation of middle C class energy. That said, we're measuring him in terms of the capability of his powers and what they allow him to do to other fighters, then determining what level of fighter he should be deemed. I probably confused you further, and I'm sorry about that. My thoughts don't always follow a logical pattern and it shows in my writing. Anyhow I feel that Toguro at 40% is with out a doubt at mid B- class. 60%= low B 80% = B* 100%=mid B+ 120%=B+* pojo's list had toguro 100% at B level, which we know is wrong lol No matter how fast Yusuke was, I still think the only reason Sniper was able to nearly kill Yusuke was becuase Sniper's abilities were better suited for fighting someone like Yusuke or Kuwabara rather than someone like Hiei, Bui, or Jin. I don't think a demon on the same level as Yusuke would have had as much trouble fighting Sniper. Sniper's powers just seem tailor made for human victims, as they have less ways to counter such attacks. Like I said Sniper's abilities demonstrated were not at the level of the other C+/B- demons, but still a bullet is still a bullet. His attacks have unlimited potential, but Kaito has unlimited potential as well, but even his has shortcomings (the plants gently letting Yana go). Sniper's shortcoming was that while his bullets were fast, Hiei was faster. So his abilities are based on things he can launch based on his surroundings, and thus he is dependent on them. If he has nothing to launch, he is helpless. So really, its his tactical and effective use of his abilities, rather than his abilities themselves (which are very simple compared to others) which makes him so deadly. Yusuke was fast indeed and was almost able to block all of his attacks but not fast enough, but even in the anime, Hiei was faster to the point that he was able to completely dodge Sniper, even when Sniper tried to hit him from point blank range with bullets enhanced by his abilites. It's just that Hiei's abilities were better suited against Sniper's abilites. Sniper was hiding, striking from afar, and taking advantage of his surroundings and his range. That's more of Sniper using effective tactics to defeat his opponent. To compare, its sorta like that Gouta guy from Busou Renkin. His powers are really weak and simple, just controlling small spinning discs, but he is able to defeat foes far more powerful (with much more useful weapons) than him by using strategy and deception. That's what keeps me from thinking he is that high. Still feel free to disagree with me. I do...and thanks for blocking my post >.<' But actually I think that summary of Toguro's spirit classes is correct... I can respect that you think Sniper's abilities are human-tailored, but not every demon is as fast as Hiei. Speed seems to be the only thing that defeated him, in that scenario. Sniper only chooses to shoot bullet size objects, because they use the least amount of his energy. He can definitely shoot larger things, including his opponents. As for the comparison, actually, I believe that Kaito and Kido are S and A classes, respectively. I'll defend that claim later, if you want. Ok, I take it back. If Sniper has nothing to launch, he IS helpless...excluding his gun. Hiei is an unsually fast character, and he was even faster than Sensui, shown by catching him of guard, before attacking. But that's only a special case. Few demons -even those with higher classes- are as fast as Hiei is. And the pistol that Hagiri used, was a normal gun- nothing special about his use of it. While Sniper is more suited to long range, don't assume that he absolutely can't fight midrange. The only distance he'd absolutely fail in is close range, and Hiei also hid out the entirety of the fight, in the manga, which is canon, only attack Hagiri when his back was turned completely. I got the Leaf blade scan, but have been unable to find the epilogue scans online, if you could post a link to the epilogue, I could do it easily :) If you can't find it, no worries. ... oh...thanks, lol You make a great point Kusanagi, and it has sort of swayed me to your side placing sniper at a C* class. It is the employment of his abilities against opponents ill-suited to fighting him (which is quite a high percentage of humans and comparable demons) which makes him seem so powerful. I like your a bullet is a bullet tag line haha. But we've seen B range demons easily dodge his attacks yet Yusuke seemed to have some difficulty doing so at upper B class levels. Well, maybe not difficulty as much as laziness and lack of motivation hahah.He has psychology on his side as well as relentless/pin point accurate and deatly attack, in all honesty those are traits I haven't found in comparable C-/C class beings. @^@'' 03:09, May 2, 2011 (UTC)'' Sway then, Jangashi! Lol. I'm looking for a good debate, but if I'm outnumbered, so be it. I'll harbor my personal opinion, and leave him at a C*. ANYTHING is better than him as an upper D class. That's just blasphemy. @^@'' 04:28, May 2, 2011 (UTC)'' When I said C-/C I was talking more about the nature of their powers themselves, not taking into account factors like strategy employed by the characters. Sniper's level can vary whether you discuss his power level itself (lower), or if you include the effective tactics he employs to win (higher). If we do the latter, this list would be MUCH more difficult to make as even when Kurama was a D rank demon, with his intelligence, he should have been much higher. In that case, Jangashi would be doing the former, while I'd be including both. However, I believe his abilities are of the A class...I sound like a fanboy? The thing is, Hagiri's physical traits aren't up to par with his skills, explaining his guerilla tactics. "sort of swayed me to your side" i'm still UNDECIDED lol and I honestly feel the best representation of his capability is C+* level. But since blazing put up a fight, we can go with C+? I'd love to debate and I'm sure there'll be many more bouts like this to come, but I've got to catch some Z's pretty soon XD True, true, well, I'll just wait for his confirmation..... hah, don't get ahead of yourself fanboy, before you can get him to A- we've got to convince BLazing he's an upper C lol >...> I'm definitely alright with him being C+. @^@'' 04:47, May 2, 2011 (UTC)'' I honestly don't care if you put Upper C on the page. I just giving my opinion that I don't agree with it, as it seems to be a representation of his level if everything went his way and fought an opponent who can't effectively counter, rather than a representation of his actual abilities. To quote Yusuke, "TOGURO WAS JUST A B?!" (A- at best with his 100%). Yes, you do sound like a fanboy. Nothing wrong with that, just don't make you liking the character influence your decision on his level. P.S. This is like the fourth time someone replied while I was writing my response. It's getting kind of annoying, though to be fair my comments are very long. lol, that's why you should use join the MvC blazingkusanagi. ask ctype for details, it's much more effective for debates ^_^ and he's totally a Hagiri fanboy, i'm adding a sniper pic to his profile page haha Now, now- come on, guys. Let's not hate :P I never said I'd make him a B, but an upper C is....allow me to make a comparison, to satisfy you. According to pojo, Toya is an upper C. Toya was brutalized by Kurama, who couldn't fight for nearly the entire engagement, and even though their wits matched, he couldn't finish the latter off. If Hagiri is a low upper C class, then what's so bad about that? You said yourself that, coupling with his intellect, he could be higher. Nothing wrong with not liking Hagiri- I won't give him an asterisk or another class. And I try not to compare two characters in my list- the fights and their pairings could be biased. I try to analyze the abilities in general. Sniper's abilities are phenomenol. All he has to do his touch something, and he can shoot it. That's A class material, and I'm not taking that back. Again, him being a human is the only real limiter, and why he is not B class. To call Toguro a lower A class, is to go against the show and manga. When have we ever showed "hate" lol? We're just giving our opinions. The reason I'm going by C is like I said, I'm going by the powers levels alone like Jaganshi, rather than taking into account aspects like strategy. I view tactics and intelligence of demons around that level as more of a side effect than a deciding factor that they are that level. Sniper's abilities are phenomenol, but they are not without limits. C+/B- would be if everything happened to go his way (i.e. Yusuke being in an area where there were several things Sniper could attack him with) and was paired with an opponent ill suited to his abilites. While he has very high offensive potential, in overall fighitng ability his vulnerability, and his dependence on factors working his way keep him from being too high. Characters like Touya, while his defense is low as well, demonstrated a great range of abilities. Kurama defeated Touya in part due to Touya's weak defense (which he made up with his variety of offensive options) and the rest due to Kurama coming up with a strategy to defeat him. If Touya hadn't been deceived to land the finishing blow and kept attacking from afar, I think Kurama would have collapsed from exhaustion. Since that was a battle Kurama won through clever deception rather than his abilities alone, I don't think it should be taken into account in comparing power levels. To me it's like saying because Yusuke defeated Rando through luck, he must be stronger. When at the time, it was obvious Rando was at a much higher level. Nothing is "bad" about him being upper C, like I said you can put whatever you want on the page, and I won't go out of my way to change it on the page. You asked me for my opinion on what level I thought he was, and I am merely giving the reason why I believe him to be a certain level. I find no reason to force you to agree with me. P.S. I said A- "at best" not definitely. I consider him a B+, but I'm saying its a possibility. In the original Japanese, Toguro's final form wasn't 100, but was "100 over 100" percent, so it is him going beyond his body's limits (which was high B), much higher than what Spirit World had measured. Let me know if you have any requests for manga scans to be added to any of the pages on this wiki. I'd be glad to add anything you'd like. Hiei_Jaganshi (talk) 20:58, May 2, 2011 (UTC) How about younger Kurama's leaf sword in the two shots chapter? As well as the manga epilogue scans such as showing Jin, Touya, and Suzuki sneeze, Kaito and his girlfriend. I was joking about the "hate" comment, lol. All factors go into a spirit class. What you're arguing about is his energy level. Intellect, speed, tactics, strength, durability -without energy-, agility, and reaction speed accounts for the results I come up with. Based on all of that, what do you think his class is? You've been arguing for the wrong thing this entire time. 100 over 100, as in past his limit? That sounds like what 120 percent would be like- upper B class. @^@'' 21:50, May 2, 2011 (UTC)'' This was a response to your previous comment you posted while I was writing @Ctype While Kaito can potentially be the most powerful psychic due to the fact that his abilities completely nullify defense and Kido can completely freeze foes, I don't think that makes them S and A. Kido can only freeze foes by getting close to them, and even if enemies didn't know about his power, he can be defeated from afar, and he can be attacked by others while stepping one one's shadow. The most powerful Kido can be is if some giant thing was in the sky that covered a crowd of demons in shadow, and if Kido was in the middle he can presumably bind all of them. Kaito has a lot of potential like Sniper, but I don't think "potential" should decide how they fit on that list, as potential, is what they are capable at their best if they make the most of their abilities. You can't assume everything will work in his favor. Demons that don't have as much speed as Hiei on his level will most likely have other ways to defeat Sniper like superior tracking abilities or enhanced defeneses (like Bui's battle aura or Toya creating an ice shield). Sniper was lucky that a truck just happened to be within his range, thus factors were working in his favor. He can shoot larger objects, but like I said he is using smaller objects because for the third time " a bullet is a bullet" and that is all that is necessary to cause enough damage to kill, I don't think that is evidence of giving him such a high level, it seems more of him using effective tactics to take down his foe. Btw I was including his gun among things he is dependent on. I'm pretty sure Sniper's gun is enhanced by his abilities, even if a normal pistol, the rate is probably even faster by inserting his spirit energy and giving it even more precision. I'm sure he can fight midrange, but in midrange he is far more open to attack, and is much more vulnerable to attack, and thus far weaker. The only way I can see Sniper as effective in midrange is if he was on his motorcycle (to compensate for poor movement), or fought against foes unable to properly counter even simple attacks. I think going solely by the manga canon will be a problem, as we will have to remove 1/3 of the fights in the last season. P.S. it would have been far better if you commented directly under my comment to make it less confusing .This is the comment to what you just posted I've been arguing for the power level itself, but even with all those additions I doubt it will change. Even if you took in all factors, Sniper has fairly good intellect and reaction speed, with high tactics, butSniper's abysmal ratings in physical strength (not his projectiles), durability, and agility (unless on his motorcycle). Other demons on that level are more likely far more balanced, even if aspects such as strength and speed are focused on. By the way if you go by that rather than just power level like I am and take into account those factors and potential, you'll have to completely change that list as Kurama's intellect, and Yusuke's increases in energy when those he care for are in danger, Hiei and Rando could have easily killed Yusuke but decided to be sadistic etc etc. I view his full form as B+, and him going beyond his limits (100 over 100, though some refer to is as 120%) percent verging (may or may not pass) as A-. You've got the go ahead to condense those two Suzaku techniques into one. I assumed that's why you did it- to add accurate info and because of the assumption that he can shoot arrows solo. You made the right call, but they should really be condensed and have the Viz manga name included. Well, if you think Sniper sucks that badly, I'll go ahead and change him to a high mid C, if Jangashi has fully swayed his opinion. And no, I won't have to change the classes- every think is averaged out, and Kurama BoS is incredibly weak, to the point where his intellect plays less of a role, and he takes an incredible amount of damage finding the enemy's vulnerabilities. As for Yusuke's life energy, that's max upper C, and behavioral patterns were not listed, so what you've said about Hiei and Rando don't count. Then Sniper must be BARELY upper C? Lol I don't think he sucks (I wouldn't describe C or high D+as "suck"), he's probably my favorite of the Sensui's Seven, I think you're overrating him (I personally find it hilarious you think that C=suck, and C+=powerful). I think that they should be analyzed based on an even playing field, rather than situations where everything goes his way or he fighs against foes he is better suited. Sniper had used his abilities in a wide open area, where he could most effectively use his abilities. Even though Hiei defeated him by sneaking up on him, that is just as much tactics and deception as Sniper fighting from afar where he is safe from harm. Regrettably using pokemon as an example, certain types are more suited for fighting against other types, and it terms of statistics are better prepared to fight against other pokemon. What I meant was that behavior patterns of sadistically holding back actually made them weaker than they were at their full strength and quickly killed them, thus it should make some differences as they were not fighting to their fullest. Ok, you're right in that scenario...but upper D and lower C are "suck" to me....mid C is too. Anyway, I'm guessing you suggest he'd be midsized playing field? Ok then, but the only way Sniper could win in that situation is he shot his opponents. So, I see what you mean. Yusuke'd fry him, unless Sniper had him a grip long enough to transfer his demon energy to Yusuke and hit him. But what about the Shi Mon Jou Ji Han? Couldn't that make him an effective midranged fighter? Maybe even close ranged? And as an update, Hagiri is pretty agile: he'd climbed up the cliff overlooking that forest, and in Tokubetsu Hen, he can jump as high as Yusuke, and has a longer hangtime. If you don't consider Tokubetsu Hen canon, he'd managed to slip away from Yusuke, after the latter chased him. I know for sure that Yusuke is faster than a motorcycle...if an upper B Yusuke isn't, are you to say that only opponents around Hiei's speed can utilize that advantage? Because that's what it's looking like. I'm not counting behavoral patterns. Like Kurama's intelligence, which has no "direct" effect on his abilities, those traits have no "direct" effect also, and have nothing to do with their natural abilities that we've seen. @^@'' 22:53, May 2, 2011 (UTC)'' The bullet prints seem more effective from long range than mid range, as attacks are headed towards the victim with 100 percent accuracy while the victim cannot see where the attacker is. The 100 percent accuracy don't mean much if they have more effective ways of blocking/countering or more ways to control their attacks than Yusuke, I'm sure he's agile for human standards but I don't think he would be comparable to the demon on that level. If you take into account tools like his motorcycle, one can argue that he is agile, but whether you do is up to you, I wouldn't as his motorcyle for enhanced speed is just as much a tool as his marble, gun, and truck projectiles. Btw we shouldn't consider video games canon in a tier list, in one fighting game, Sniper's super attack is him jumping over an ENTIRE TRUCK which heads straight for the foe. I'm sorry that is just too much. If you think its only speed, I've listed examples of other ways to counter him earlier, but I'll go more in depth. Even without Hiei's speed, Touya has his ice which can be used as a shield, Chu has his barriers, Jin can fly out of range, Zeru can surround himself with flames to melt everything that comes toward him there are many ways to counter his abilities more than speed. Ok, you're good then. I'll place him at max mid C (O.o), but the agility still stands. You haven't debunked my anime/manga claim, and the game you'd mentioned was for the Neo Geo, I think. I meant Tokubetsu Hen, for the SNES, which didn't seem noncanon, because it presented no noncanon material, and wasn't outlandish with what I did present....at least for Hagiri. Him jumping over the truck was my point though. He apparently has a good jumper.. You've nullified his attack though, so I'll make him a max mid C, and because I'm a Hagiri fanboy (as you are a Toguro fanboy ;P), I'll make another listing, including his motorcycle. That'll be an upper C. Sound good? (thumbs up) I was considering mentioning the motorcycle earlier, and am glad you had the same thoughts about it I did. That should put this scuffle between you two over C* --> C+ to rest lol :P Time for another few, since I'm still in C territory, lol....I hate C class. :l Kusanagi, what'd you rate Kaisei, Fubuki, Koto, and Juri (who are somehow C class)? We say that Kaisei,> As for the last two, we both agree that they aren't C class, but Jangashi thinks that they are both lower D class, while I think that Koto is a D class, while Juri is a lower D. I'm officially agreeing with you about Koto. Unlike, Juri she's experienced and withstood Toguro's energy release, where lesser apparitions perished. I can agree with D class for her based on feats of survival and agility :) @^@'' 23:22, May 2, 2011 (UTC)'' Then I'll continue :] hold up, now. You still need Blazing's opinion! I think he left.. ------- Yeah, I've been really busy over the past few days... Even the Tokubetsu Hen games had several noncanon things like Itsuki punching with his shadow hands (which may be possible but never demonstrated), had enemies and bosses not from the series, and the doctor could grow claws. Btw, I'm not a Toguro fanboy. I liked him okay, but not enough to be a fan (favorite villain is probably Yomi or Sakyo). I just said A- (at best) as a speculation judging from the sheer power he exhibited at him going beyond his bodily limits, not based on whether I like him or not. Kaisei and Fubuki, I really can't say since not enough was shown, and Yusuke was going easy on them. If I had to guess when they fight as a pair, their teamwork makes them high C/low B perhaps? Koto and Juri I'd say probably D. While not enough of physical prowess was revealed (Koto is at least very acrobatic), they make up for it with their human-level intelligence. Probably a higher D seeing how she was able to survive Toguro's soul sucking, though, either that or her will was just that strong. I'm indebted Thank u Thanks for separating those techniques well, I'll be sure to get pictures. Also, I like how you adjusted those fighting styles and adapted what added put in some cases; also I agree about not including the elemental natures of Jin/Touya as part of their fighting style. I was influenced by an outside source when i did that. :P Hiei_Jaganshi (talk) 15:57, May 6, 2011 (UTC) can you add letters being crossed off for Kaito, and Yana glowing as he uses his powers in the techniques section? I'm having trouble findign them, and don't have the capability to VLC snapshot them at the moment I'm on it, and thank you for leaving that Speculation about the weakness in Kaito's powers. Logically, it stands to reason that a deadly projectile (i.e. a marble from Hagiri), entering his territory from some distance away, would continue on its path and Kill kaito. It is definitive that such an occurance could NOT be construed as an "act of violence" occuring within Yuu's territory as the actual act would have been initiated outside his powers area of influence; this is the basis for the claims I made against his territory. Granted, Yuu is undoubtedly capable of increasing his territory radius with experience, but I feel that this possible, critical weakness of his could make him drop on the character tier page. But as you said, I don't have any solid evidence, only my breed of logic to support it. :P I personally always thought that even when the act occured far away, once it enters the range, it would be considered an act of violence by the energy blast and would dissipate upon impact, but you know insufficient evidence and all. (Still I think he should be lower on the tier page, seeing how kurama was able to get around it, and the limited range really keeps him from beating someone outside of range, even when protected from them ^Yeah, I'm sort of torn on that point. I suppose my speculations above stemmed from my dislike of Kaito being considered an A class human, when he has no real offensive powers if a person chose to remain silent while inside his territory. I just sort of assumed that the strategy to counter him would be to assault him from a range outside his radius. Also, how would you distinguish between a deadly projectile and a "softly thrown" rock (from height) when they entered his territory. Would the territory distinguish the objects by velocity/density? That's where I think the logic falters a bit, on assuming anything that could hurt Kaito would dissipate. Anyway, sorry about those edit conflicts, and I'm done editing the Black BLack page for now, so no worries :) Yeah, while he is without a doubt potentially one of the most powerful, I wouldn't consider him an A class, as class shouldn't be about their potential ability but how they normal statistics are (same reasons as Sniper). The way his powers work is probably either when the movement passes a certain velocity when about to crash and cause harm to something (thus Hiei's running itself didn't count), or aggressive intentions, but I personally think the former. When Yana was let go by Kurama's plants, a barrier might have formed on the ground, but seeing how hard his barriers are, I don't think it would have been a soft landing. lol maybe we should put Engrish in quotes so people don't keep reverting it. By the way that last attack on Sniper is a joke, right? If so, I think it should be removed. Yeah it's a joke and I bet you can guess which fanboy created it. Prepare to face his wrath after you remove it haha seriously though, to be credible as a wikia i think it needs to be removed and instead posted on Ctype's page or soemthing (I personally even have problems with no one stating that it is speculated that he is half fire half ice under Hiei's Elemental resistance, i mean its supported but not definite proof) I totally agree we have to stay as close to canon as possible to remain legitimate and compete with the likes of other wikis, but to be fair to him I let is slide knowing that it would be removed soon enough anyway. Don't worry if you've been gone, it's only been up less than 24hrs. And thanks for adding it to his page :-) Yeah I've read message boards saying that wikias are not credible due to false facts and rumors. I don't think it should be a problem as long as we label the speculations as speculations. How do you feel about the tier page? Anything you aren't in agreement with? @^@'' 03:08, May 7, 2011 (UTC)'' I actually agree with most of it. For Sasuga, do you think there is enough evidence for her to be placed that high? I mean looks may be deceiving, but...we can't tell how much her seduction played into Rinku's loss. Then again, it would mainly be based on how you rate Kurama's Demons, as some claim A while others say S. manga ref Should Team Kurama be at S- energy levels based on their youki readings in the anime. I don't have the manga with me to check right now, what were their levels post-training with Genkai in the Viz adaptation? Sorry lol I didn't go that far in the Viz adaptation as by that point I had lost faith in Viz lol. Still the difficulty of that list is that by Yuda's scan, Hokushin was a lower level than Shishiwakamaru, but Hokushin easily beat Shishi, so I'm not sure what to say. Do you have access to the orig Japanese? And yeah, I'm uncomfortable labeling that bunch as S class as they're all eliminated from contention rather easily, and there's evidence to suggest they're merely A+ class. "Her energy's in a whole other league than mine" -Chu "I've known humans with more power than what you've shown." - Kujo <--even if he knew Sensui that's only one ningen lol. btw, I found the contrast between your reasonable stoicism and ctypes fanboy fanaticism most entertaining xD The only volume I have beyond the dark tournament is the last volume of the Korean translation lol, I don't have it with me at the moment. But even that isn't 100 percent accurate. E.g. The pose Yusuke makes as a tribute to Virtua Fighter was confused for the announcer, and the sneezing by Suzuki, Jin, and Toya was changed to annoyance. For why I put Sasuga so high, you'd have to see the MvC link under her page. As for Team Kurama, I got that from Pojo. You'll have to check- the manga uses energy levels, but I used Spirit Classes. @^@'' 03:39, May 7, 2011 (UTC)'' I think she would range from any A (high B if she happened to be extremely lucky) to low S, as she could have been like members of Team Kurama. ^I concur with Kusanagi on that point. She's just not at S+ levels, however S- is very understandable if you check the link to MvC in her trivia section. Yes, I wanted to consider that she was lucky, but being that she was in the dreaded D block, I doubt she was. @^@'' 03:52, May 7, 2011 (UTC)'' I'd close my profile if I ever put her at high S. She's at lower S class, which Kusanagi agrees with. o.o @^@'' 03:55, May 7, 2011 (UTC)'' And sorry about the language... @^@'' 04:01, May 7, 2011 (UTC)'' it's all right. Then again, seeing how Rinku was in and was able to easily win in the prelims and was able to survive in that same dreaded D block, and he's probably one of the weaker of Kurama's Demons, Sasuga could just as easily be any A from - to + as she could be barely an S-. I personally think there should be a range of possible levels for her due to a lack of battle screen time. Seconded, if it were my decision alone I'd mark it A*/A+ for the reasons kusanagi listed ~Jacen~ Why don't we just place her at A/A+ and S- and label them as (possible) or (At best/at worst), given her lack of battles? Whatever works. I could do that, but first we have to think of a more accurate title. "At best/at worst" implies that we've seen her fights. Both Rinku and Kotei easily won in the prelims. Rinku lost in the first round though. Sasuga lost in the third round of the tournament; the fourth round in her bracket. http://webservice.imagesauce.net/image/587545/1060x.jpg Only error of the bracket is it's the D block, and she came out 4th, not 3rd/4th. Rinku is the second weakest of Team Kurama, right above Suzuka. She's definitely not mid A, because she wouldn't have made it that far. @^@'' 19:46, May 7, 2011 (UTC)'' Wait, Sasuga fought Mukuro? After Hiei, but before Natsumi, because... wait, I thought you read the thread link? @^@'' 22:33, May 7, 2011 (UTC)'' I read the first few pages, but it was full of trolling, personal attacks, and irrelevant facts so I stopped, going to finish reading now. Hmm...the stuff this pScizor says...while most of if seems based on fact. I don't recall anything about Sasuga beating this Dalon guy, or possibly beating this Kagura. I mean its mainly conjecture and inference, but nothing really contradicts it I guess. hey kusanagi, if you have the chapter or volume Daisuke appears in I can get a picture on his page. :) Last chapter of volume 1 and the first chapter of volume 2. Btw i FINALLY found the name of the rival junior high Kasanegafuchi (i just remembered that it began with ka) If it's no trouble, could you provide the chapter or volume for those two female students? first appeared in the third chapter of volume 2, along with the student ghost. "I read the first few pages, but it was full of trolling, personal attacks, and irrelevant facts so I stopped, going to finish reading now. Hmm...the stuff this pScizor says...while most of if seems based on fact. I don't recall anything about Sasuga beating this Dalon guy, or possibly beating this Kagura. I mean its mainly conjecture and inference, but nothing really contradicts it I guess." The fact that she was mentioned by Botan/Koenma and Rinku, in a positive way, meant she wasn't out yet. @^@'' 02:32, May 8, 2011 (UTC)'' Oooh, and Eri/Katsumi? I loved that section, lol. Those snippets are making me like the manga more now. Are you talking about the part where they claimed some random monster was Sasuga's sister in the anime and Rinku began cheering for him (if so it is more implied than confirmed)? At what stage did that conversation occur? I'm not really trying to argue, I'm just genuinely curious on knowing how the battles turned out. I liked that chapter because of how anticlimatically useless Yusuke was in that chapter. Yes, I was. Lemme see, but I don't think it happens in the manga. What I posted was in the Viz translation. Eh, I can see what you're getting at, but I wouldn't call it conclusive (if anything it was neutral more than positive) Yeah it doesn't, she only made 2 appearances in the manga (saying hi to Rinku, looking at Chu getting his ass handed to him), and that wasn't one of them. Ctype, do you mean to say Natsuko? I count what in the anime and not in the manga, as long as it doesn't contradict anything in it. And Natsume is the one that gave Katsumi the amulet, if I'm not mistaken. My fault; got me thinking about the MT, lol Even if that scene was counted, I'm not sure if that will be enough evidence lol. I don't know if their names were changed in the Viz translation, I remember Katsumi saying "Oh, Eri...", though I just looked at a scanlation which called Eri Natsuko...perhaps it was changed to not confuse with the other Natsuko? Btw. I dont have the book on me right now, but all online sources seem to say Eri was the quieter shy one and Katsumi was the jealous one who placed the curse. Does anyone have the names of the girls in the anticlimatic chapter in which Yusuke crossdressed?